20 .— OUT IN THE MOUNTAINS — MARCH 1998 ICorol L. Thoyer, M.D.‘ l'f)lYIll‘~,' Pm/sici<.IrI Community ' Health Plan NORTI-IF.AST DIVISION Georgia Health Center RR#2, Box 7160 Fairfax, VT 05454 Tel: 802/524-9595 Fax: 802/524-2867 Michael Gigante, Ph.D. Psychosynthesis Counseling 8 Therapy (802) 254-8032 15 I’VI_I/rtle Street, Bratllcboro VT 05301 DYKE PSYCHE: Being in a Relationship With Women‘ and Then With a Man: An Interview with JoAnn Loulan by Esther Rothblum oAnn Loulan is author of the books Les- bian Sex, Lesbian Passion, and The Les- bian Erotic Dance. After years of being involved with women, she is now in- volved with a man, and this has created quite a media stir. In this interview, she talks about what it's like to become involved with women and then to become involved with a .\I(Int[‘.c.llc’(‘ 229-5220 sliding fee scale B u rl in gton 860-6360 JOSIE JUHASZ, MA. Lic. Psychologist - Master LYNN GOYETTE, M.A. Léc. Clinical Mental Health Counselor insurance accepted W COUN.S’El,lNG CENTEII or Norm-IEIIN VERMONT (602) 754-7345 Br-attlelaoro. VT 0530: DIANE LEAIQDI. L|CS\Y/ Counceling ' psqchotherapq ’ ' Carol Brown, M.A., LCMHC Feng Shui Harmony Learn to arrange your home and office to create harmony and prosperity in your life. 802-660-3109 If ”health & w‘ellbeing”» is what you know, you should be advertising with us. OITM, your community Ilorum (802) 865-9294 1113112 ’ When I came out as a lesbian, it was per- fect. I told everybody. It was the mid—1970s, I was a feminist, and I was on a team of sex edu- cators at the University of California at San Francisco. The motto was ”sex is fun, sex is fluid,” etc. I then took a course from a radical ‘lesbian at San Francisco State University. I had also just heard that hetero- sexual intercourse causes cer- vical cancer. I was dating a man in the class, and I turned to him and said: ”I’m a les- bian.” And that was it. I never had sex with men again. I im- mediately had a three-way fling with two women in the class. The first person I called wasmy ex—sister—in-law (I was divorced from my husband). I said to her, ”I know what our problem is.” She said, ”What?” I said, ”We’re lesbians.” And within six months her husband had her out of here and back to Connecticut. They moved right next to Paul Newman, but she found the lesbians in Connecticut right away. I got involved in a rela- tionship which lasted three and a half years, and I was a lesbian separatist. I was sur- rounded by radical feminist lesbians. I owned my own business, so I could do what- ever I wanted at work. Then I began training as a psycho- therapist, and I began to run , workshops about lesbians and sex. We would bring 20 lesbi- ans at a time to a beach com- munity and talk about sex. Women began to suggest that I write a book, and that’s how Lesbian Sex was founded. It all felt like a lesbian slumber party. I was the only lesbian in my community who owned a house, and it became a center for women coming ou_t, for les- bians who needed to do their laundry, and for a group that would watch ”Mary Hartmann, Mary Hartmann” on tv. I loved it. I had no struggles with my family. My sister—in—law’s father saw my picture in the paper and told everyone in Ohio. My family flipped out more when they heard I was having a baby, but/when my son was born they were very excited. My high school friends, my old boyfriend's fa- ther—everyone was fine. So, in contrast, being in- volved with a man has been one of the hardest things I've done. I knew it would change my life—with my community, my friends, my therapy clients, my livelihood as an author of lesbian books. Whenl first had sex with a man after all these years, I thought: ”Oh, this will be such a riotl” I had known him much of my life, and so it was sweet and funny. Anyway, we lived 3,000 miles apart. But I had just written_ a scathing letter to the editor of a newspaper, because someone had written i.n this newspaper that I had sex with men. So my letter emphasized the fact that I hadn't had sex with men in years! I guess you can never’ say never. We began to see each other a number of times, and we began to feel more serious about the relationship. I knew this would have tremendous '' repercussions. I have always told the truth, but at first I thought of this as a brief affair. So I told a friend who had had many sexual relationships, who was nonmonogamous, and who had had sex with many men and women. I thought she would be support- ive. But she _wasn’t. She thought it was stupid and that V I was ruining my life. I was a leader in my community and should put my community first. Then I told another close friend who was completely supportive. Different people began lining up different ways. Some couldn't care less, some never spoke to me again, and some debated the issue and then came around. Being involved with a man has not changed my — sexual identity. And this has become the issue with friends and with the media, as I pre- dicted. Everyone wants me to identify as bisexual, and that doesn't feel right to me. I'm not generally attracted to men, and I have no interest in entering the male world. I know that my sexual activity is bisexual (I'm not an idiot!) but it's cer- tainly put me into a tai1spin— lesbian must mean something. I understand that sexual activ- ity is separate from identity, but I'm also in a long—term committed relationship with a man. I can't help but go back to my early sex workshops where we viewed sex as mul- tifaceted——it consists of orien- tation, identity and behavior. And my orientation and iden- tity are still lesbian. Standing up for what I believe in has created great loss for me. If I would toe the po- litically correct line I would get my friends back. But I can't live a lie. So I agree with people that lesbians are women who relate to women, but I still can't identify as bisexual. In short, coming out as a lesbian was a piece of cake, while becoming involved with a man has been full of sadness and loss. As I said on the Oprah Winfrey Show, I'm the one who is in the ”deviant” relationship! ]oAnn Loulan’s books Lesbian Sex (1984), Lesbian‘ Passion (1987) and The Lesbian Erotic . Dance: -Butch Femme, An- drogyny and Other Rhythms (1990) can be ‘obtained from . Spinsters Ink Publishing Com- pany, 32 East First St., #330, Duluth, MN 55802— 2002, tel. 1- 800-301-6860. E Esther Rothblum is Professor of Psychology at the University of Vermont and Editor of the jour- nal of Lesbian Studies. DYKE PSYCHE is a monthly column. L