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' lesbian families in our community.

Decembet

Interview with the plaintiffs:
Nina Beck and Stacy Jolles

continued from front page

all, that the state of Vermont was willing to say I could have a legal relationship to Noah.

but I could not have a legal relationship to my partner. It did not make sense, and think
even legally it does not make sense.

Nina Beck: I had been wanting to do it for a long time. I told Stacy we had to get married
before we had kids; and part of that was joking around, but part of it was real. The part of
it that was very real was that if I could avoid it, I wanted to ensure in as many ways that I
could that I didn't become a single parent. That's one way that of course doesn't guaran-
tee anything —- there are no guarantees in life — but it's another way that our society has
of asking people to make a public commitment to each other. It does ensure that it's a little
more difficult tojust pick up and leave. SJ: That really keys into one of the AG’s (Attorney
General) responses....That there's too many deadbeat dads...that kids need two parents.
This was an argument against marriage for same sex partners. [And yet] I completely
agree with the Attorney General. Yes, let's try and have two parent families for our chil-
dren whenever possible and why not here as well. 

NB: [The response] makes seven basic points, and some of the points you can agree with.
Yeah, in general, wherever possible, two parent families probably are healthier, more sup-
portive environments for kids... But you can't see how they get to their conclusion from
that opening statement.

OITM: Have you had to deal with criticism of this debate from within the GLBT commu-
nit ?

S]:yOne of our lawyers said recently that this is the last legalized discrimination against
gays and lesbians.

NB: In this state.

S]: That hit me soprofoundly. I thought, let's just get rid of it if for nothing else. I think
that if the gay and lesbian community can understand it that way then we would have to
all agree. Let's just get rid of all legalized discrimination. Then if you want to choose to
get married it's an option that's avail-
able.

OITM: When Noah died, and you»be-
ing relatively new to Vermont, did you
feel like you had the support you
needed?

NB: It was amazing. We had more
support than we ever could have
imagined.

S]: I would [also] like to say this. We
don't have a strong history of gay and

 

Because of that, we don't have some
of the same skills that the heterosex- . ’ .
ual communit has about rievin

the loss of ch)ildren or som: of mg  
things Nina and I have had, to go through and are still going through.

NB: It makes it hard sometimes....particularly in gay and lesbian circles. All of a sudden
we realize that we're relating to folks as though we're just a couple and they're relating to
us as if we'rejust a couple and eVeryone's sort of comfortable cause that's how we're used
to being. And all of a sudden we'll wake up and say wait a second, cause we're notjust a
couple, we're a family and we need for you to relate to us as if we're still a family, as
though Noah were still here. So sometimes I think we feel lonely in queer circles because

we don't feel like his presence is acknowledged.

OITM: What is Noah's role in this case? .
S]: The Freedom to Marry Task Force and the other couples have been phenomenal in that
Noah is still one hundred percent part of this case to them. This case started with Noah

I’ and this case is still about Noah.....They never once skipped a beat, like /"well now] that

Noah is gone, maybe we should do this differently." They never did that, which we'—re so
grateful for. '

' NB: We did a photo shoot for OUT magazine and we insisted that we hold Noah's picture.

Then the photographer asked ifwe could do a few pictures without it and we said no, and

 the other plaintiffs said no, you can't, he's part of this. I think Noah's role is to represent
_‘ the children of gay and lesbian families and to be there to address the issues that straight

society would like us to answer about how we construct our families.

' OITM: Do you think queer families are more threatening to people than queer marriage?
' _ S]: In ‘the rest of the country, where we have donemost of our living, queer families are

_more threatening. But that doesn't seem to be true in the stateof Vermont which is why I
think marriage is so possible here. - ' V "

NB: I don't understand why if it's allowed for us to adopt each other's children and to
make legal commitments to being a family in that way, I can't imagine what would then

. stop the state from allowing us to make a legal commitment to each other. I can't fathom
‘ it. It doesn't make any sense to me at all. ’

A OITM: While it's most effective to speak for yourself, you're also being asked to speak for

the community at large. How do you feel about that role? '

NB: More than I feel like I represent a lot of people, I feel like Noah represents a lot of
people. I feel like he represents the children of all of our families. V

5]: As adults we can speak for ourselves; whether we agree with this or whatever. Kids

can't speak for themselves. In a way we were doing this battle to bring that voice to it, and
he does that in his life and in his death.

OITM: What do you think kids of gay and lesbian parents need?

5]: Kids of gay and lesbian parents have a lot of baggage they have to deal with in this
culture and society. I think that some of that baggage could be lifted by legalizing same
sex marriage. ‘

NB: I would like to tell this story about what is it that we're looking for. We were traveling
back from Europe. In Amsterdam airport [they ask you some questions before you can get
on the plane]... The security agent came, and I had Noah and Stacy was standing next to
me. She said, ”are you two traveling together." And we said yes. She said, ”Are you a
family?" And we said yes. And so she took all three of us to her podium and asked us the
same questions at the same time. And I almost cried because I felt so seen, so validated
and so ordinary in that moment. It was everything I was looking for. It's like that is why
I want to be married. I want that feeling in my life on a regular basis.