Tim: Part of our problem is that we’re in
a different building, we’re setting our own
hours.

OITM: So you Community Based Police
are also an outcast subculture?

' Dave: Yes. Very much so. And that’s nor-

mal for the transformation between typical
patrol scenarios to community based po-
licing scenarios. All over the country this
has happened and it’s been 5 to 10 years
until the community based policing phi-
losophy is incorporated into everyday life.

Sonny: It’s only been going on in Bur-
lington for 2 years.

Greg: If you’re not working the line then
a lot of the thought is that you’re not a
cop.

Dave: Cops are a culture that’s very re—
sistant to change.

Tim: They’re very conservative, and I say
that as a conservative.

OITM: It’s a para-military culture.
Greg: Yeah, that’s where it stems from.

Tim: It’s got lots of the problems but not
the benefits of a para-military culture, and
I went to a military school. There are
some benefits to that system. There are
also some big problems. I'm not trying to
give a whitewash. I can be a little bit crit-
ical.

Some laughter.

OITM: And you, Tim, are moving out of
Community Based Police?

Tim: Yes, and that hopefully is part of it.
The theory is that now I’ll go back and
take this with me.

OITM: You’ll go back on the line?
Tim: Yes. When I go to calls I’ll be able

to_ be a better police officer. I believe I
Wlll. I think there’s a lot of resistance.

Some people are distrustful of it. I think
the chiefs 100% behind it. I’m not so
sure about some of the middle managers,
who became cops 20 years ago. It was a
very different job then. 30 years ago the
criteria was that you had to be the biggest
guy, you had to be able to boot people
around. That was what they wanted, they
didn’t care what was up here. [Tapping
his head] Now your first defense and your
best tool for doing the job are your per-
sonal skills.

Greg: I think this is what policing needs
to get back to. Knowing the community,
the cops on the beat.

Tim: I think what you see in bigger cities
where the police become almost an army
brings valid criticism. I’m a Republican,
and I’m not trying to hide it, but things do
get out of touch, like in LA where they
hire people from all over the country and
they get in there and they don’t know the
community. That has got to change. There
can be a difference here. There’s been a
lot of distrust. I’ve been stopped by police
in other places where I was treated very
poorly. I’m sure people in the gay com-
munity have seen things happen on TV
and such and think that’s what’s going to
happen.

OITM: Part of where that comes from is
that being gay or lesbian was, for a long
time, criminalized in our country and is
criminalized in other countries, so there’s
still the perception that we are going to be
regarded as criminals just for being who
we are, and therefore as law enforcement
officials you will see us inevitably as
criminals and treat us that way.

Sonny: I think what has happened is that
the degree of education with cops today is
different. They have more life experience
and don’t have any prejudices. Today it’s
an issue that we go over in the hiring pro-
cess, about prejudice, so we’re hiring cops
who are more able to deal with the person
as a person, and not what he is.

OITM: If someone had a negative ex-
perience with an officer do you think they

April 1993

could come to the department and it
would get looked at in a serious way, that
the officer would get to deal with it, not
necessarily to create trouble for anyone
but that it would be handled in a con-
structive way? Do you think that in this
department there’s a climate that would
foster that?

Dave: Yes and no. We’re no different
from any other workplace. We’ve got our
movers and our shakers and we’ve got
our lazy slugs. We’ve got people that are
prejudiced, we have leaders that know
nothing and practice poor management
and unfortunately you pretty much get the
luck of the draw. I wish we could say that
everybody here was committed to pro-
fessional enforcement of the city and state
laws but that’s not so.

OITM: So it sounds like what you’re
saying is that it’s really important for peo-
ple to get to know you guys (Community
Based Police).

Greg: Yes. Suppose you came to me and
told me you’d dealt with an officer and it
wasn’t favorable, than I would be able to
go in and talk with that officer and have
him go back and make it right.

Sonny: We have a certain responsibility.
We are obligated to police ourselves as to
what is acceptable in our line of duty and
what is not acceptable. I think that any
complaint would be looked at with a lot
of intensity to see if there is a problem.
With us as facilitators to bring another
point of view, you have other people
aware, to help do what’s right rather than
to have a prejudiced person say “He’s a
fuckin’ fag, don’t worry about it.” Now
you have other people involved. I think
that we are good cops, and we want to see
good cops, and that’s a good place to
start.

OITM: So people can go to you with po-

licing issues, and if they have issues with
the police.

Continued on the next page

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